Working on ranks

malachy's picture

Changes so far:
[+] VIP has already been renamed to Trusted and now has Creative powers.


Recently, I have come to realise something about the current state of Arcator: the ranks that we are using don't quite work.

The step from Default up to VIP works very well as an anti-griefer measure, but VIPs shouldn't really be called "VIPs."

Builder and Builder+, while a great addition and good step up from the previous setup, are only really here to allow rank progression; to allow users to feel that they are becoming more respected on the server. There must be a better way to provide this, rather than fracturing the blacklist and padding out ranks.

Having to wait until Builder+ for Creative is a joke, it is difficult to grief with and should be afforded to whatever-the-equivalent-of-VIP is. Additionally, we have Admins and Mods who don't do those respective jobs; they have it purely because they don't deserve to be as low down as Builder+ is. Making Builder+ into a prestigious rank, affording limited WorldEdit powers and more, would allow players to be given great building power but not the responsibility and requirement of being on staff.

Mod and Admin are more or less perfect, except that the blacklist seems too strict.

Admin+ works perfectly.

Owner works perfectly.

At the moment, I think a new system should be trialled:

Replace VIP with Trusted, a single rank covering VIP and Builder.
Replace Builder+ with something like Architect, affording powerful tools.
Loosen the blacklist.

This leaves Trusted very sparse, so some sort of points progression system would be added. Staff and possibly Architects would be able to give points to Trusted users for being helpful, acting well in the community and making good builds. There would be no leaderboard or competition, and there will be strict criteria for awarding points hardcoded into the system, which would be a plugin hardcoded by Kieraan.

Hence a Trusted user's name might appear as:

[Trusted][25] hikiko101:

The 25 denoting 25 points awarded by staff. No extra features would be given based on points, to avoid an RPG style system developing on what is and will stay as a true freebuild server.

All points would therefore do is replace clumsy promotion systems with a simple affirmation of a user's continued contribution to the server.

I discussed this with several important individuals on IRC last night. I would now like more input on whether these problems exist and what you think of the solutions considered. None of this is final and not all of it will neccesarily be implemented.

NEW! TrustPoints plugin specification: http://pastebin.com/EnfUrJjA

So, to reiterate:

Current Rank Change
Default -
VIP Renamed to Trusted. Given creative mode. Will expand to cover the Builder rank, and will be given a looser blacklist. Will be subject to the Points system.
Builder Replaced by Trusted but with the potential for a high number of Points to provide similar validation.
Builder+ Becomes Architect or something similar, is given advanced building tools. May or may not be subject to the Points system.
Mod and up -

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Joined: Aug 23 2011

*COUGH* The points system was my original idea that evolved in to the idea that you see here today on Mal's post *COUGH* *COUGH* COUGH*

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llanocboom's picture
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Are we going to transfer ranks over? Or reset all ranks? (apart from mod and up obviously)

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Dweson's picture
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I like everything, except by maybe a rank before trusted? Also, I don't quite agree with the limited world edit, since it is un-rollback(able?) and it can bypass any type of protection. Maybe the limited WorldEdit should be given to mods instead and architects could same some other power.

As for the blacklist, I agree with loosen it up a bit for example: obsidian, piston, bonemeal, wildgrass/netherwart, dead sappling. Those should be removed and maybe some of the other ones given to lower ranks, but not remove them.

I like turtles. I like trains too. Therefore I like train-turtles!

Pigboy501's picture
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Methinks this is good plan. I think hierarchy of ranks should go Default/Trusted/Builder/Mod/Admin/Admin+/Owner with aforementioned powers

helzee's picture
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Dweson wrote:

I like everything, except by maybe a rank before trusted? Also, I don't quite agree with the limited world edit, since it is un-rollback(able?) and it can bypass any type of protection. Maybe the limited WorldEdit should be given to mods instead and architects could same some other power.

As for the blacklist, I agree with loosen it up a bit for example: obsidian, piston, bonemeal, wildgrass/netherwart, dead sappling. Those should be removed and maybe some of the other ones given to lower ranks, but not remove them.

Get //restore working again. Big Grin

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Banana937's picture
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I love the idea, I'll rework the blacklist when I get home (which will be momentarily... Probably 20 more minutes).

Dweson wrote:

obsidian, piston, bonemeal, wildgrass/netherwart, dead sappling. Those should be removed and maybe some of the other ones given to lower ranks, but not remove them.

Yesyesyes. Obsidian was pretty much only blacklisted from when you needed to call an Admin over to use //superpick. Now that many more people will have Creative, destroying obsidian isn't such a demanding task.

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fela's picture
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I didn't know Minecraft supported points as such. Can they be stored in a MySQL table? If so, I could do some stuff with points and social ranks.

Btw, you nicked my hikiko101 name Tongue

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Dweson's picture
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helzee wrote:

Get //restore working again. Big Grin

Meh, It wasnt flawless and I don't like the idea that people could edit spawn and or other protected areas, even completley destroy it/flood it or wahetever.

I like turtles. I like trains too. Therefore I like train-turtles!

malachy's picture
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fela wrote:

I didn't know Minecraft supported points as such. Can they be stored in a MySQL table? If so, I could do some stuff with points and social ranks.

Btw, you nicked my hikiko101 name Tongue

Kieraan would code it. But the point is that points can't be competitive in that way, it fucks stuff up too much. They are purely a personal indication of trust.

also, "make it so peaple can greif :P"

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fela's picture
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malachy wrote:

also, "make it so peaple can greif :P"

And can you make me mod on malachy plox!

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kysanchez's picture
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Sounds good, I like the name Trusted much more than VIP. And about the WorldEdit thing Dweson said, isn't there a way we can make to where they can't world edit in protected areas? Also,

malachy wrote:

I discussed this with several important individuals on IRC last night.

teehee, I'm important. xD

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Joined: Jan 8 2011

maybe mods could get /tpo?
and if possible make a rank between trusted and default that gives them a bit more freedom and makes them feel good before diving the creative and the hole sh-bang

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Tikinash's picture
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I like the idea of the Architect rank, and think it should be chosen from the most trusted Builder+s that don't want to have the responsibility and time commitment of being a member of staff.

LOL Backwards! Wait...

ryand25's picture
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kwithnok wrote:

maybe mods could get /tpo?
and if possible make a rank between trusted and default that gives them a bit more freedom and makes them feel good before diving the creative and the hole sh-bang

I LIKE THE IDEA
Maybe like...
Known or Semi-Trusted

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Tikinash's picture
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kwithnok wrote:

maybe mods could get /tpo?

Me gusta.

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malachy's picture
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kwithnok wrote:

and if possible make a rank between trusted and default that gives them a bit more freedom and makes them feel good before diving the creative and the hole sh-bang

I don't see the point, really. The points system covers the whole "feeling good" thing and withholding basic permissions is not really a good idea. Care to explain a bit more?

Mods getting /tpo sounds pretty reasonable.

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malachy's picture
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Dweson wrote:

I don't quite agree with the limited world edit, since it is un-rollback(able?) and it can bypass any type of protection. Maybe the limited WorldEdit should be given to mods instead and architects could same some other power.

I will get //restore up and running with the 4-hourly backups; that way as long as the grief is caught within 4 days everything should be fine.

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Thing is with the points system, what value do the points have? I mean, what do they do other than make you feel good about yourself? Are the points taken in to account when being considered for promotion? BECAUSE THEY SHOULD BE!

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fela's picture
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The_Untitled1 wrote:

Thing is with the points system, what value do the points have? I mean, what do they do other than make you feel good about yourself? Are the points taken in to account when being considered for promotion? BECAUSE THEY SHOULD BE!

I'd say the primary purpose of the points should be to let people know the status of each other, beyond "trusted".

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Tikinash's picture
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So would there be some command to give a number of points to someone? And who would have perms to do that?

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fela's picture
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Tikinash wrote:

So would there be some command to give a number of points to someone? And who would have perms to do that?

Ask Kieraan; he's supposed to be programming the plugin.

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Th3cronick's picture
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I like the Idea, but W.E. would have to be watched. I mean sure you can grief. But you can do a lot worse such as crash the server. 10 blocks of lava going Into the void can do such a thing. or even 100 blocks of water from ground to bedrock is dangerous if not watched.And what if they delete a building and W.E. a forest in.Just makes me nervous that's all.

(>o.o)> <(o.o<) ^(o.o)^ (>-.-)>...What?

fela's picture
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Th3cronick wrote:

greif

Fela's sanity-protector-matic wrote:

It is grief.

(Fixed the typo for you). And I agree, WE would be an exception.

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mal dont forget tpo for mods

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llanocboom's picture
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Mods should get tpo but only to Ranks below them, Not to admins

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Tikinash's picture
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Yah, that would be fair.

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Banana937's picture
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llanocboom wrote:

Mods should get tpo but only to Ranks below them, Not to admins

That would be a good idea, however I don't believe that's possible (tpo gives you tpo permissions, there is no "only to ranks below them" setting).

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